2023-07-29 17:56:00
2023-02-06 00:01:21
2023-02-06 00:00:49
23515812
Friendica timelines are compelling
There's something about the method that Friendica uses to generate timelines that I find really compelling, and that doesn't seem to be talked about much.
Friendica's timelines are "post" centred, with replies appearing as a tree attached to that post, in a similar way to Facebook. It's distinct from the more Twitter like method common on most of the #microfedi platforms, in which there is no real difference between a post and a reply.
The reason that I find this framework so compelling is that it means you always have context and full conversations in view. If someone you follow replies to someone else you follow, the whole post and all of the replies appear in your timeline again, with full context at a glance.
Similarly, when you're reading your timeline, everything is grouped together. Everyone in your timeline that replied to a post is there on that post with full context. And if you're not interested, it's trivial to just scroll past.
Compare this to Mastodon, Misskey etc and their forks, where you tend to only see one branch of a conversation, and often have the same conversation showing up in your timeline multiple times depending on who is involved.
It's an option for interacting with timelines that I'd love to see implemented in other FediVerse platforms!
#friendica #Fediverse #Fedivangelism
@Friendica @Fediverse
Friendica's timelines are "post" centred, with replies appearing as a tree attached to that post, in a similar way to Facebook. It's distinct from the more Twitter like method common on most of the #microfedi platforms, in which there is no real difference between a post and a reply.
The reason that I find this framework so compelling is that it means you always have context and full conversations in view. If someone you follow replies to someone else you follow, the whole post and all of the replies appear in your timeline again, with full context at a glance.
Similarly, when you're reading your timeline, everything is grouped together. Everyone in your timeline that replied to a post is there on that post with full context. And if you're not interested, it's trivial to just scroll past.
Compare this to Mastodon, Misskey etc and their forks, where you tend to only see one branch of a conversation, and often have the same conversation showing up in your timeline multiple times depending on who is involved.
It's an option for interacting with timelines that I'd love to see implemented in other FediVerse platforms!
#friendica #Fediverse #Fedivangelism
@Friendica @Fediverse
mögen das
Salamander, nutomic, eshep, JackFromWisconsin, d-RLY?, Muad'Dibber, _ed, caos, mediaformat, Phil, GPL will protect us, kevincox, Lorraine Lee, Anders Rytter Hansen, Catradora-Stalinism☭, down daemon, vim_b, Dessalines, Daryl76679, Kilgore Trout, Altea, Quatta, jackalope, altair222, KelsonV Old Account, Raroun, Zerush, Valerie Sonh, 0x1C3B00DA, Ninja :blobninja: :nsbadgeblue:, Ninja, Mark, Britt 🕉️☮️✌️🏳️🌈🇺🇦, Joël de Bruijn, The Retronaut, ST.POP, eldrichhydralisk und shoomba mögen das.
teilten dies erneut
caos, Phil, Lorraine Lee, Valerie Sonh, Mark, Britt 🕉️☮️✌️🏳️🌈🇺🇦, eshep und The Retronaut haben dies geteilt.
Seph Harrison
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •mögen das
d-RLY?, Muad'Dibber und Daryl76679 mögen das.
Ada
Als Antwort auf Seph Harrison • • •mögen das
d-RLY?, Muad'Dibber, Kilgore Trout und KelsonV Old Account mögen das.
Seph Harrison
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •Muad'Dibber mag das.
eshep
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •Link to source
button(?) on each post that Friendica has would be quite welcome in any of the other interfaces. But maybe one that links to the full thread or at least shows the original post.mögen das
d-RLY?, Muad'Dibber und Daryl76679 mögen das.
Ada
Als Antwort auf eshep • • •I mean, those features would be nice too, but I don't think they'd reshape the timeline browsing experience in quite the same way
mögen das
eshep, Muad'Dibber und Daryl76679 mögen das.
m@thias.hellqui.st
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •Then there is of course Lemmy too, which has a pretty clear thread-with-replies structure. Could do with some touching up of the CSS of the threads to make them even more clear, and the concept of Lemmy is obviously different compared to the short/long-post services in that it sticks to posting a link/topic and the discussion around that.
The absolutely worst is Mastodon. It doesn't show threads at all, so one has to really like that "back" link, because they have to spend a lot of time with it. For every little "I agree!" post you have to dig in all the way to see what it is all about...if it has even bothered to collect all... mehr anzeigen
Then there is of course Lemmy too, which has a pretty clear thread-with-replies structure. Could do with some touching up of the CSS of the threads to make them even more clear, and the concept of Lemmy is obviously different compared to the short/long-post services in that it sticks to posting a link/topic and the discussion around that.
The absolutely worst is Mastodon. It doesn't show threads at all, so one has to really like that "back" link, because they have to spend a lot of time with it. For every little "I agree!" post you have to dig in all the way to see what it is all about...if it has even bothered to collect all the replies, as the federation in Mastodon only covers instances you know. If you are reading a thread there could be several replies you simply don't see, and you will not get any dynamic updates unless you back all the way out and then go back in again.
Misskey/Calckey look nice. Sadly they have the same issue as Mastodon with not picking up all replies in a thread and the "Content might be missing, you might want to check out this post on the original instance" message on top of every post gets tired pretty quick.
It is a shame Mastodon users seem to think everyone else is using Mastodon, and that it is the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) of The Fediverse, when it literally is a goat. A big goat, admittedly, but still, big doesn't always mean best.
@fediverse
mögen das
caos, Andrei G, Phil, Anders Rytter Hansen, Mark und Joël de Bruijn mögen das.
teilten dies erneut
caos, crossgolf_rebel 🤍 on Calckey :firefish: und Andrei G haben dies geteilt.
Jupiter Rowland
Als Antwort auf m@thias.hellqui.st • • •For the vast majority of #Mastodon users, Mastodon and #TheFediverse are one and the same. It was hard enough for them to comprehend that Mastodon isn't one website for everyone and everything, a monolithic service like the #birbsite. And they won't get #Pixelfed or #PeerTube into their heads until their timeline is being bomb... mehr anzeigen
For the vast majority of #Mastodon users, Mastodon and #TheFediverse are one and the same. It was hard enough for them to comprehend that Mastodon isn't one website for everyone and everything, a monolithic service like the #birbsite. And they won't get #Pixelfed or #PeerTube into their heads until their timeline is being bombarded with posts from these; probably not even then.
It gets even worse with other microblogging or macroblogging services which, unlike #Plume or #WriteFreely, don't mimic classic blog platforms. It's too easy for the average Mastodon user to take them for Mastodon as well.
I'm on #Hubzilla. Something which, I guess, even the majority of #Friendica users has never heard of, even though it's the direct successor to Friendica, and both had the same creator. For typical Mastodon users, especially those who came in from #BirbSocial, it's just as incomprehensible as Friendica.
Generic example of a dialogue between a typical Mastodon user and me (look at my original post for more text formatting):
"Oh wow, how can you write such long toots?"
"I'm on Hubzilla."
"Oh cool, so their admins must have raised the limit."
"I'm not on Mastodon, I'm on Hubzilla."
"Still cool to have such a liberal instance."
"Listen. I'm not on Mastodon. I'm on #Hubzilla. An entirely different project than Mastodon which is also four years older than Mastodon. You can read my posts on Mastodon, but I am not on Mastodon."
"Buh... but... how..."
"The magic of the #Fediverse. It doesn't only connect Mastodon instances with one another, it also includes wholly different projects."
The same people may have had posts from #Pleroma, #Akkoma or #MissKey in their timelines without noticing, at least not if these posts were short enough.
Hubzilla | Hubzilla - hubzilla@hubzilla.org
hubzilla.orgmögen das
Phil und Ada mögen das.
caos
Als Antwort auf Jupiter Rowland • •https://metalhead.club/@caos/109794147062261267#
mögen das
Ada mag das.
caos
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • •But for those who like it, Mastodon or other microblogging software is certainly a good choice.
It's just a pity that many of the services are not made known to the outside world outside the Fediverse. There are also many people who use or have used Facebook, Google+ and the like. But it is hardly known that there are alternatives in the Fediverse that go in this direction and have more or different functions..
@m@thias.hellqui.st @Ada
Ada
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •I came to the Fediverse on Mastodon. I'm an admin on a Calckey, Friendica and Lemmy instance and maintain accounts on them all. I still have my original Mastodon account too, though I don't use it much anymore.
The reason I make posts like this is because it's the diversity that excites, it's the fediverse that excites me. It's the fact that it's open and expanding and people can find whatever experience they're looking for.
I want people to share my excitement about the future of the Fediverse, whether they're on Mastodon or another platform!
mögen das
m@thias.hellqui.st, eshep, caos, Altea, Joël de Bruijn und ed mögen das.
caos hat dies geteilt.
Jupiter Rowland
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •They make themselves and each other believe that Mastodo... mehr anzeigen
They make themselves and each other believe that Mastodon is superior to any other Fediverse project in just about any regard imaginable while apparently completely refusing to learn about those other projects. They're supported in their belief by mass media only ever writing about Mastodon and the number of Mastodon users.
However, mass media only write about Mastodon because they simply don't know a thing about the rest of the Fediverse, and they didn't know a thing about Mastodon until the #TwitterTakeover had actually happened, and the second wave of former #birbsite users had come flooding into Mastodon in such numbers that it was impossible to ignore even for those who act as if #FLOSS doesn't exist.
As for the numbers of Mastodon users, they're so high because I guess more than 90% of all Mastodon users still don't know that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, because they have never heard of anything else in the Fediverse. Mastodon was pretty much the only Fediverse project advertised on #BirbSocial when this was still possible.
There are various reasons why Mastodon users don't spread across the Fediverse in masses. None of it is because Mastodon is superior to everything else because, truth be told, it isn't. I'll come to this later. One reason is, again, that the vast majority of them still don't know anything else. Another one is because it was hard enough to get used to Mastodon after years of using #Twitter, and they don't want to get used to yet another platform. And another one is that it's hard to move from Mastodon to something else and take your account or at least your connections with you.
Another reason may be because people don't need anything beyond microblogging, and that's what Mastodon does. Now, sorry for all those of you who fight tooth and claw to defend Mastodon against the competition, but #Akkoma does microblogging, too. With extra features beyond Mastodon, some of which Mastodon users have been pestering Eugen Rochko to include in Mastodon for ages (e.g. "quote retweet"). All while being more lightweight and requiring fewer server resources than Mastodon. Oh, and it federates with Mastodon.
Other Fediverse projects aren't even competition for Mastodon because they specialise in something else. @Pixelfed specialises in posting pictures, much like #Instagram. @PeerTube specialises in video upload and streaming, not too dissimilarly from #YouTube. #Plume and #WriteFreely specialise in distraction-free traditional blogging, much like #Medium. #Lemmy specialises in groups and posting and discussing news, much like #Reddit or #HackerNews. You can't claim that Mastodon is better at each of these things than these platforms.
And then there are the jacks-of-all-trades which are usually filed under either "macroblogging" or "like #Facebook ". They weren't launched to have something that goes beyond Mastodon because their history reaches far back before Mastodon. Mastodon was launched in 2016 (and not 2022 like many believe). #Friendica was launched in early 2010, even before the crowdfunding campaign for the development of #Diaspora started. And in that early stage, Friendica, then still named #Mistpark, was vastly more powerful than Diaspora* ever got and also vastly more powerful than Mastodon 13 years later.
#Hubzilla, created by the same man as Friendica, is the most extreme one of them all. For starters, it eliminates the need for multiple accounts by having multiple independent channels with separate identities on the same account. Each channel can have multiple profiles like on Friendica so you can present your channel differently to individual contacts or groups of them and differently again to the general public.
It can do micro- and macroblogging with 50,000 or more characters and just about everything that can be done with #BBcode (italics, bold type, underline, lists with bullet points or numbers, quotes,
code blocks
), and you can embed as many pictures as you want in your posts where you want them instead of them automatically being attached to the end of the post.Group handling in Hubzilla is much easier than list handling in Mastodon. You never have to type the name of a contact to find them. You can edit contacts and add them to groups or remove them, and you can edit groups and add or remove contacts, all with a few mouse clicks. And while Mastodon shows a maximum of four lists on the main page, Hubzilla will give you easy access to all your groups.
On top of that, you can have
All with one run-of-the-mill Hubzilla account. And once per channel, separately.
And as if that wasn't enough, Hubzilla introduced the #Zot protocol and with it a concept named #NomadicIdentity.
Mastodon and Friendica let you have multiple accounts, even on separate instances. They also support migration from one account to another, and unlike Mastodon, Friendica lets you take all your content with you. Hubzilla (and #Streams, the successor of its slimmed-down successor, still created by the same guy) goes even further: Not only can you easily move from one hub to another, you can have channels on multiple hubs and automatically keep them fully in sync! If one hub goes down, it doesn't matter because you've got everything on all your other accounts.
Last but not least, both Friendica and Hubzilla federate with almost everything that moves, even far beyond the #ActivityPub Fediverse. This could be Diaspora*, this could be #GNUsocial, this could be #Wordpress blogs with or without the ActivityPub add-on, this could be RSS feeds (and they both generate feeds themselves, so this is bidirectional, too), this could even be Twitter until the API is shuttered. Friendica even used to federate with Facebook until Facebook put rocks in the way; this is the only connector that Hubzilla didn't take over.
The obvious downside is that for someone who just came in from the #birdcage, all this is utter overkill. In fact, people who are used to Mastodon may find Friendica borderline unusuable due to its many features. And Hubzilla is so infamous for its own clumsy UI capitulating before its sheer power that even Friendica users find it hard to use, fresh converts from Twitter to Mastodon even more so.
Some design decisions may be hard to understand for outsiders. Converts from other Fediverse projects to Hubzilla regularly fail at something as seemingly similar as connecting to users on other ActivityPub-based projects until you tell them that ActivityPub is an optional app on Hubzilla that has to be activated first because Hubzilla concentrates on Zot with its Nomadic Identity.
Also, just because these projects offer so much power, that doesn't mean that everyone needs it. If you do, it can be convenient to have it all under one login. But if all you're looking for is a bit of microblogging and online socialising, you don't need to drag a CMS and a full-blown cloud server with all bells and whistles along with you that just clutter up the UI. In that case, projects like Mastodon and Akkoma win because they're more approachable.
And while Friendica, Hubzilla & Co. can do threaded discussions and even have something like forums, Lemmy can do this more elegantly because it specialises in it. While you can use Hubzilla's private calendar feature for event planning, it's easier to do the same with #Mobilizon which, again, specialises in it. Or you can host podcasts on Friendica, Hubzilla & Co, but you can host them better on #Funkwhale and even better on #Castopod.
Wanting the Fediverse to be only Mastodon hinders development, namely the development of new projects within the Fediverse that may be able to do all-new things that we haven't seen in the Fediverse yet. Things that, sorry to say again, you'll never be able to do with Mastodon.
P.S.: For extra kicks, don't just read this on Mastodon. Open my original post; there you can see what Hubzilla is capable of, and what Mastodon strips away.
mögen das
m@thias.hellqui.st, Hamiller Friendica, caos, Ada, Julian Foad und The Retronaut mögen das.
teilten dies erneut
Ada, Real Social Networks und PFK Ausbildung 🇪🇺 haben dies geteilt.
caos
Als Antwort auf Jupiter Rowland • •https://gnulinux.ch/serie-fediverse-dienste-hubzilla
The other articles in the series introduce other #Fediverse software like #Pixelfed #Misskey #Friendica #Peertube ....
@PeerTube @Pixelfed @m@thias.hellqui.st @defcon42/Mirko @Ada
mögen das
m@thias.hellqui.st und Jupiter Rowland mögen das.
Marcel Moré hat dies geteilt.
Abbadon
Als Antwort auf Jupiter Rowland • • •Anders Rytter Hansen
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •mögen das
Catradora-Stalinism☭, Muad'Dibber, caos und Raroun mögen das.
Ninja :blobninja: :nsbadgeblue:
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •Embers.Social Friendica Network | Home
embers.socialcaos mag das.
Ada
Als Antwort auf Ninja :blobninja: :nsbadgeblue: • • •Natasha Jay :mastodon: 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Jupiter Rowland • • •@jupiter_rowland @peertube @m
... mehr anzeigenThanks guys.Having joined essentially as part of the #TwitterMigration in early Nov, I do want to say cut us some slack 🙂 and that some of us *do* grasp the potential of the #Fediverse and take to it like a "duck to water" 🦆 ... but still it takes time to expand one's social network worldview from a very locked-down Twitter micro-blogging/chat view, to a whole new #Fediverse dynamic? It's a journey, and #Tumblr moving onto the #Activitypub may b
@jupiter_rowland @peertube @m
Thanks guys.Having joined essentially as part of the #TwitterMigration in early Nov, I do want to say cut us some slack 🙂 and that some of us *do* grasp the potential of the #Fediverse and take to it like a "duck to water" 🦆 ... but still it takes time to expand one's social network worldview from a very locked-down Twitter micro-blogging/chat view, to a whole new #Fediverse dynamic? It's a journey, and #Tumblr moving onto the #Activitypub may be a huge sign of things to come
Keep promoting the opportunitites e.g.
@ada has got me interested in moving onto CalcKey in future, and I'm looking for an additional platform for an occasional longer piece. Perhaps Medium (with add-ins) or perhaps #Friendlica or ... or ... choices?😎
Mass/mainstream media struggle to even conceive of a non-commercial/non-advertising revenue driven platform *at all* so tbh even #Mastodon sends their minds in a headspin eg. this kind of article?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/18/mastodon-users-twitter-elon-musk-social-media
Keep up the good work!
Thousands fled to Mastodon after Musk bought Twitter. Are they still ‘tooting’?
Wilfred Chan (The Guardian)caos mag das.
caos hat dies geteilt.
Jupiter Rowland
Als Antwort auf Natasha Jay :mastodon: 🇪🇺 • • •@Natasha Jay Longer piece, hm...
If you can live without comments, you may take a look at #WriteFreely. Or if you can live with on-and-off developer activity and the recurring feeling that the project will be abandoned, try #Plume which does have comments and a built-in image hoster for your convenience. Both use Markdown, by the way.
Essentially, anything that's labelled something with *blogging and that isn't Mastodon can do longer pieces. #Hubzilla even has an "articles" app just for that which comes with the side-effect that mobile Mastodon apps will always open links to articles in a Web browser and show them like they're supposed to look. But you always have some distraction around the text whereas WriteFreely and Plume are at least as plain and clean as Medium.
Natasha Jay :mastodon: 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Jupiter Rowland • • •@jupiter_rowland Thanks, I had #WriteFreely on my list to look at for this ... will look at the other options too 👍
Even Calckey seems to have a hundred additional options vs Mastodon and it's taken me 5 months to uncover in Mastodon I can follow a group of hashtags in a column eg (Cats + Caturday+ CatsofMastodon), but only if I use the Advanced Web Interface ...
I mean there's a LOT to unpack "here" in the as it's totally (totally) not a Twitter replacement despite the MSM calling it such, which is just plain wrong
caos mag das.
caos hat dies geteilt.
caos
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • •But for months now there are calls from (new?) Mastodon users complaining and wining about what Mastodon can't do and demanding that the developers should finally implement it immediately (quoted posts, groups, chats, more poll options, more list functions, etc.).
All the functions, which are then so painfully missed, are possible with almost all other text-oriented #Fediverse softwares, partly even with Mastodon-Forks or even with another instance, which e.g. increases the character limit (there are also public ones).
Who points out that there are already some alternatives and that they can try the... mehr anzeigen
But for months now there are calls from (new?) Mastodon users complaining and wining about what Mastodon can't do and demanding that the developers should finally implement it immediately (quoted posts, groups, chats, more poll options, more list functions, etc.).
All the functions, which are then so painfully missed, are possible with almost all other text-oriented #Fediverse softwares, partly even with Mastodon-Forks or even with another instance, which e.g. increases the character limit (there are also public ones).
Who points out that there are already some alternatives and that they can try them, often gets aggressive reactions (not from you @defcon42 (Mirko) :fediverse: : Who is satisfied with Mastodon, that's good. But from those who explicitly want something else, but don't want to hear that (exactly) that already exists)?
What exactly the background of these reactions is, I do not know. Possibly it plays a role that through the media coverage the expectation was created that people here may join a Twitter only without Musk, that they can consume passively? And that then overload occurs when it is seen that there are many more possibilities? That the Fediverse is not equal to Mastodon, but that it is much much more
@m@thias.hellqui.st @Ada
mögen das
Mark und ST.POP mögen das.
teilten dies erneut
caos und Mark haben dies geteilt.
Jupiter Rowland
Als Antwort auf caos • • •@defcon42 (Mirko) :fediverse: I've explained here why Mastodon has the most users.
Hint: It is not because Mastodon is technologically superior to #Akkoma, #Friendica or #Hubzilla. Because it isn't. And I've described it there.
It's only because almost everyone who has joined it since 2016, especially between October and December 2022, believed or even still believes that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. They simply didn't know anything else.
@
... mehr anzeigen@defcon42 (Mirko) :fediverse: I've explained here why Mastodon has the most users.
Hint: It is not because Mastodon is technologically superior to #Akkoma, #Friendica or #Hubzilla. Because it isn't. And I've described it there.
It's only because almost everyone who has joined it since 2016, especially between October and December 2022, believed or even still believes that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. They simply didn't know anything else.
@caos I know the background of these reactions: Mostly, those people who demand Mastodon introduce new features have never heard of any other Fediverse projects that already have these features. They could have all that cool stuff on #Pleroma, #Akkoma, #MissKey, #CalcKey etc., but they don't know that any of these projects exist, much less that these projects already have all the features they want Mastodon to have.
I've written a post about this phenomenon, and judging by how many likes it has received (286 and probably counting), I guess that many many Mastodon users have learned about it and about the existence of a Fediverse outside Mastodon with more features than Mastodon through this post.
CC @m@thias.hellqui.st @Ada
Jupiter Rowland
2023-03-15 17:30:41
-
hub.netzgemeinde.eumögen das
Hamiller Friendica und caos mögen das.
Nordnick :verified:
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@erik
Usually because you follow the author... and now it is also possible to follow hashtags.
😉
m@thias.hellqui.st
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@erik
Yes, this is where Friendica truly shines. I actually had a screenshot of exactly how it looks like in Friendica if one of my contacts re-shares/re-toots one post. In the attached screenshot that action is by the green arrow (far down). Friendica then pulls in the thread of posts that belong together, and show them as a clustered thread in the regular flow (note that my setting for that is ”Latest Activity”, so one can chose a different view if one were to prefer that).
@ada @fediverse
mögen das
Mark, eshep, Anders Rytter Hansen und The Retronaut mögen das.
ST.POP
Als Antwort auf Ada • • •