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Let's make Windows 10 the last version ever used!
*Sat. 28 Dec. 11h* Stage YELL #KDEEco 's Call To Action against e-waste driven by #Windows10.
events.ccc.de/congress/2024/hu…
*Mon. 30 Dec. 13-15h* B&B habitat join the BoF to organize a global #FreeSoftware campaign to raise awareness of Windows 10's EoL in 2025, the role of software in #eWaste, and how independent, sustainable #FOSS is a solution to keep devices in use & out of the landfill.
fahrplan.alpaka.space/jugend-h…
#38C3 #KDE #OpenSource
@kde
BoF: Coordinating a Windows 10-to-Linux upcycling campaign across Free Software communities worldwide Youth Operation Center / Bits und Bäume 38C3
Let's coordinate a global Free Software campaign over the next year to raise awareness about the environmental harm of Windows 10 end-of-life, while upgrading users from Windows to GNU/Linux directly.fahrplan.alpaka.space
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Sunshine (she/her)
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Suzune
in reply to Sunshine (she/her) • • •I'm doing my part.
I unregistered my Win 10 key last Sunday and removed the SSD. All my IT is Windows free.
theangryseal
in reply to Sunshine (she/her) • • •harc
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Never thought Id upvote a KDE post...
Kilgore Trout
in reply to harc • • •Ziglin (it/they)
in reply to Kilgore Trout • • •harc
in reply to Kilgore Trout • • •I'll Gnome somewhere else tho.
Kilgore Trout
in reply to harc • • •harc
in reply to Kilgore Trout • • •Teckids-Gemeinschaft
in reply to KDE Eco • • •JokeDeity
in reply to KDE Eco • • •ArchAengelus
in reply to JokeDeity • • •JokeDeity
in reply to ArchAengelus • • •MyNameIsRichard
in reply to JokeDeity • • •You're not running any Linux that I've used in the past ten years then. What relic of a bygone age are you running?
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JokeDeity
in reply to MyNameIsRichard • • •MyNameIsRichard
in reply to JokeDeity • • •archonet
in reply to MyNameIsRichard • • •Right? I've been running Mint the past year, can count the amount of times I had to boot into windows on my fingers, and having to use the terminal to do things is like an occasional, once every couple months thing, usually to solve a problem I've created for myself.
I remember trying Linux in the early 2010s. When it looked like a modern OS, but behaved like it always had up to that point. That was misery.
also anyone who complains about the terminal in Linux is clearly not very computer competent in Windows, as I recall frequently using Command Prompt and PowerShell to get shit done. At least, they're not doing anything remotely complex if they've never encountered or had to use either.
He's either using a 15 year old copy of Ubuntu, or he dove straight into the deep end with Arch like a dumbass and nobody told him about the wiki.
doona
in reply to JokeDeity • • •archonet
in reply to MyNameIsRichard • • •Right? I've been running Mint the past year, can count the amount of times I had to boot into windows on my fingers, and having to use the terminal to do things is like an occasional, once every couple months thing, usually to solve a problem I've created for myself.
I remember trying Linux in the early 2010s. When it looked like a modern OS, but behaved like it always had up to that point. That was misery.
also anyone who complains about the terminal in Linux is clearly not very computer competent in Windows, as I recall frequently using Command Prompt and PowerShell to get shit done. At least, they're not doing anything remotely complex if they've never encountered or had to use either.
He's either using a 15 year old copy of Ubuntu, or he dove straight into the deep end with Arch like a dumbass and nobody told him about the wiki.
Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to archonet • • •ArchAengelus
in reply to JokeDeity • • •Most settings average “Facebook machine” users need are available on common distros without touching a console.
Unless you want to emulate common windows software. Then only God can save you.
ReversalHatchery
in reply to ArchAengelus • • •jjjalljs
in reply to JokeDeity • • •I've been on Linux Mint for the past several months and I think I've needed the terminal twice?
Once I couldn't find a GUI option to adjust the brightness/gamma, but searching found me the terminal command so I just used that.
More recently I needed newer Nvidia drivers than were available by default, so I had to add a new PPA thing. We'll find out later today if I'm going to regret that.
GHiLA
in reply to KDE Eco • • •That's what they don't understand.
Every year is the year of the Linux desktop, that's why we say it every year.
~random 4chan post I'm surely misquoting
UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to KDE Eco • • •I relent, I need to switch. the proposed bullshit has gotten to much for even me, the world's laziest man.
Just a lazy man in a worky world. Should have been born a Limited Liability Corporation.
Bakkoda
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •LordKitsuna
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Linux isn't ready for the mass Market yet. I say that as someone that has been a Windows free household for like over 8 years and who actively attempts to convert as many of my friends as I can.
It is not and probably never will be general market ready. Too fragmented and too many options. Which is why I love it so I wouldn't want it to change either.
Pup Biru
in reply to LordKitsuna • • •LordKitsuna
in reply to Pup Biru • • •ⲇⲅⲇ
in reply to LordKitsuna • • •It is ready if you start learning it from children, but people first touches a Windows machine, and then they get used to what they already know.
Example of someone that never touched a Windows, post from 2 years ago: duncanlock.net/blog/2022/04/06…
And I read people that claims they are better on Ubuntu because is what they first started to use (because of lack of money) and now they find it hard to use Windows, because they got used to Linux and they aren't either programmers.
Maybe what Linux needs is marketing. The Steam console is an example of how well it sells.
Using Windows after 15 years on Linux
Duncan Lock (duncanlock.net)Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to ⲇⲅⲇ • • •Millie
in reply to KDE Eco • • •@NafiTheBear
I would really love it if we could get normal people using Linux but Linux has to come to them in terms of usability, to be honest. The Steam Deck did it, so it's clearly doable.
But in the state of things we're in, I'm afraid that *most people* are gonna follow Windows to Windows 11. and their understandings of how computing is will be mutilated by it.
and therefore we get more anprims per capita, because if you think that's not at least in part downstream of big tech fuckery you're lying to yourself
Nafeon (Backup Account)
in reply to Millie • • •@gyro the goal of that event is very ambitious I agree, but if I see that alone this year I myself made 4 friends and my mom to move to Linux then getting Linux to a solid market share and minimalising waste is a practicable goal.
I wouldn't say it was easy. It is hard work and explaining a normal person what the difference between X11 and Wayland is is next to impossible.
There will be some people who just can't afford a new PC and we basically just need to help them.
Kyle
in reply to Millie • • •Millie
in reply to Kyle • • •@kyle_pegasus
@NafiTheBear
Well that's depressing, that gonna put us so much further away from ever making things good again
Kilgore Trout
in reply to Kyle • • •Cy
in reply to Millie • • •Linux ain't the problem there. Usability is more of that nonsense thought up by corporations to scare people. Computers are tricky, whether Windows or Linux, and the only reason Windows is more popular is they've been installing it on people's computers without asking for decades. Honestly most people don't even have computers these days. All they get to have is a phone.
CC: @be4foss@floss.social @kde@lemmy.kde.social @NafiTheBear@bears.town
Kilgore Trout
in reply to Cy • • •I agree. I am quite comfortable with computers but, since I have switched to Linux about 10 years ago, I struggle any time I am asked for help on a Windows system.
It's not intuitive at all. Among the quirks, there are still 2 separate control panels that overlap, but not completely, then you have ever-buggy OneDrive, invasive notifications, a convoluted Start menu, …
People find it simple only because they are used to it.
Cy
in reply to Kilgore Trout • • •vin
in reply to Millie • • •Visikde
in reply to KDE Eco • • •I've been on linux for 15 years, very lazy, I never use CLI..
The walled garden of most community repos & GUI package managers is easier & safer than windows, no defrag, no messing with a registry or periodic restores...
I'm on Debian KDE stable via Spiral [choice of DE's], nice user friendly install, Discovery as package manager, Btrfs & Snapper for recovery/backup, the dev is helpful, Debian help is easy to find
My last daily driver Mageia
Visikde
in reply to Visikde • • •I've installed Mageia for low tech seniors over the years, the online version up grade tool, just works, They never call 🙁
I have an old think pad with Mageia as my backup, tolerates long periods without updates
I like being on the mothership[Debian] 😁
But, mostly once the pc's have hardware issues or the users go to phones & Chromebooks
I don't help people with the problem they ain't got, if there is even the slightest interest, I'm there
stom
in reply to KDE Eco • • •EddoWagt
in reply to stom • • •nutbutter
in reply to EddoWagt • • •stom
in reply to EddoWagt • • •EddoWagt
in reply to stom • • •suoko
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Some people will skip the upgrade due to slowness (it's slow with i7+16gb sometimes) and in case of users who use chrome only, ChromeOS flex or its siblings could be a solution.
Forza4galicia
in reply to suoko • •KDE reshared this.
suoko
in reply to Forza4galicia • • •JaggedRobotPubes
in reply to KDE Eco • • •As someone who is way into the idea of Linux, wants to switch, and is very gun-shy about the million little programs and extensions I might not be able to replace, let me tell you what is required of anybody who is actually genuine in their desire to see Linux gain the traction it deserves:
Don't ever tell anybody to read the manual again. Just answer the god damn question. It's good when answers to basic, common problems are peppered around the internet like that; it's dumb and wrong and weird to think of it as a thing to be avoided. If you'd like to put a link to the part of the manual where the questioner could have looked to find it, that's cool, too. Don't just leave the link--there's a good chance they didn't understand it and that's why they're asking. Maybe they just want a person-answer instead of a reference-manual-answer, and it's good when the answer exists in both forms. Every answered question is a contribution.
I would go even further: the version of reality where Linux beats Windows and ushers in an era of community-centric open source
... show moreAs someone who is way into the idea of Linux, wants to switch, and is very gun-shy about the million little programs and extensions I might not be able to replace, let me tell you what is required of anybody who is actually genuine in their desire to see Linux gain the traction it deserves:
Don't ever tell anybody to read the manual again. Just answer the god damn question. It's good when answers to basic, common problems are peppered around the internet like that; it's dumb and wrong and weird to think of it as a thing to be avoided. If you'd like to put a link to the part of the manual where the questioner could have looked to find it, that's cool, too. Don't just leave the link--there's a good chance they didn't understand it and that's why they're asking. Maybe they just want a person-answer instead of a reference-manual-answer, and it's good when the answer exists in both forms. Every answered question is a contribution.
I would go even further: the version of reality where Linux beats Windows and ushers in an era of community-centric open source dominance is populated by a Linux community that considers "rtfm", "pebcac", etc to be borderline bannable offenses. If you are a small, weak person, and want Linux to be your way of thinking you're better than other people, you'll drive question-askers away, back to Inferiority Land, using your knowledge to dunk on them instead of help them, and call it a win. These are the ugly bridge trolls, who may as well be paid Microsoft employees, keeping people away from your community, and a serious change of pace might yield much smoother adoption. At the very least, the community owes it to their own work to see how much smoother.
As someone considering the switch seriously, the knowledge that I may have to deal with people like that is absolutely, 100% a factor, and I am someone who has no qualms about telling someone on the internet to fuck off, so it's gonna be more of an issue for many others who are more conflict-averse.
The Linux community needs to take very seriously whether it actually wants increased open source adoption, or if it wants to remain a tiny minority so that it has a nice, large majority to feel better than.
daggermoon
in reply to JaggedRobotPubes • • •Infernal_pizza
in reply to daggermoon • • •[deleted]
in reply to Infernal_pizza • • •I'll take that over the windows 'support' forums where the people with superuser titles don't understand basic questions and the answer tends to be to see if it gets fixed in a future version of windows.
And those posts are a decade old because they were never fixed.
daggermoon
in reply to [deleted] • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.comrunlevel0
in reply to [deleted] • • •OMG, LOL. Yes!
"Do <cut & paste from the MS support, please tell me if it helps"
"Ehh, I was asking about something completely unrelated, bro..."
But even that beats the Atlassian forums, LOL
ⲇⲅⲇ
in reply to JaggedRobotPubes • • •Without offenses but it's important to read instructions for anything in this life, the wash machine, robot cooking, your daily medication, etc., all of them have instructions.
Most people that says "read the documentation" is also tired of people that can't read instructions how things works, and in this open source world everything minimum popular is well documented.
I feel Windows users lacks many documentation and people are used to click to .exe that claims to do what they need to do, or they just follow some random user on a forum.
When someone asks me to teach them to learn to programming, I tell them to just read documentation. No need to pay for extra courses or YouTube videos, most of the time you can learn it better and up to date if you go to the documentation.
Then, after you did the proper search, it would make sense to open a post asking for help to gurus, telling them the steps you followed providing context and logs, if you don't do that, most experts would just ignore you if you can't spend time reading docs, they won't spend time solving your issue normally.
BangCrash
in reply to ⲇⲅⲇ • • •GoodEye8
in reply to ⲇⲅⲇ • • •Even home appliances don't come with the full spec technical manual. They come with the user manual so you'd know how to use your appliance, not how to fix your appliance (with the exceptions being some easy to fix user errors). When people get technical errors on their home appliances they call a technician to fix those errors, because most people lack the technical knowledge to fix things themselves. And I imagine it's the same for you. I'm pretty sure you don't fix your own car. Now imagine if you went to a mechanic to have your car fixed and they say "Just read the fucking manual and don't waste my time". What are you going to do? Read the manual that you didn't even know existed until that point and you'd first have to spend some time actually finding the manual (because some of those technical manuals are a fucking pain in the ass to find, if they're even readily available), or find another mechanic that would fix your car? What if all the mechanics tell you to go read the manual? How much of your own time would you be willing to invest into fixing an issue you didn't want t
... show moreEven home appliances don't come with the full spec technical manual. They come with the user manual so you'd know how to use your appliance, not how to fix your appliance (with the exceptions being some easy to fix user errors). When people get technical errors on their home appliances they call a technician to fix those errors, because most people lack the technical knowledge to fix things themselves. And I imagine it's the same for you. I'm pretty sure you don't fix your own car. Now imagine if you went to a mechanic to have your car fixed and they say "Just read the fucking manual and don't waste my time". What are you going to do? Read the manual that you didn't even know existed until that point and you'd first have to spend some time actually finding the manual (because some of those technical manuals are a fucking pain in the ass to find, if they're even readily available), or find another mechanic that would fix your car? What if all the mechanics tell you to go read the manual? How much of your own time would you be willing to invest into fixing an issue you didn't want to fix by yourself in the first place? What if someone offered to replace your entire car for free? Would you still spend time fixing your car or would you go "fuck it, I just need it to work"?
And that's the average Windows/Linux user. They just want an operating system that works. They don't want to understand all the technical stuff that goes on under the hood and when something breaks they want "a technician" to give them a quick solution, because knowing the inner workings of Linux is not a priority for them. Maybe they're the car mechanic that would fix your car and they've spent their time learning the inner works of a few dozen cars. People focus their time and attention on different things so getting angry at someone not wanting to learn Linux is like a car mechanic getting angry at you for not wanting to learn how your car works or a personal trainer getting angry because you don't know how your own body works etc.. Just because you know how Linux works does not mean everyone should know how Linux works.
ⲇⲅⲇ
in reply to GoodEye8 • • •More or less is what I was saying.
I said that you should pay the professional instead.
Depends on what you buy there is more or less doc, things I often read is what to not do to not break it and how to get it ready and "running" correctly, as I would do with a microwave or to put air on my car wheels (I always open the book to read the correct values of air bar pressure for the wheels).
Most Windows users neither want to know the inner working of Windows, they pay experts to fix issues, or they click .exe files.
... show moreI didn't say that, I said that they need to
More or less is what I was saying.
I said that you should pay the professional instead.
Depends on what you buy there is more or less doc, things I often read is what to not do to not break it and how to get it ready and "running" correctly, as I would do with a microwave or to put air on my car wheels (I always open the book to read the correct values of air bar pressure for the wheels).
Most Windows users neither want to know the inner working of Windows, they pay experts to fix issues, or they click .exe files.
I didn't say that, I said that they need to get used how Linux works, because most people are used to Windows, and they all expect Linux to work like a Windows. But I know that I know a lot about Linux without asking anyone, just reading wiki, docs, git projects... some blogs or even YouTube videos. And now, as experienced user for more than 10 years with Linux distros, all this is really easy, I often do pretty amazing stuff as hobby at home and all that by reading stuff on internet how to do it. Thanks to my skill of reading docs, I am working with people with university degrees with the same salary/benefits as me, but I do not have studies more than the mandatory. If you are not into computers, you can keep using Windows or try to learn how Linux works to get used to it. The problem is the marketing, I'm sure all of us had a Windows machine much before we touched a Linux, rarely a person starts using their first computer with a Linux distro.
Summary: Expect a Linux guru to tell you to read the documentation as a car mechanic would tell you to do the engineering degree to fix your car.
If you have someone close to you that knows what happens to your car, and they tell you how to fix it, and it works, congratulations, the same would happen if you need to fix your printer drivers. But that person won't tell you how to fix your car motor engine (I mean more complex component), the same happens with the Linux guru.
🫤 Sorry but I don't really see the problem here more than the capitalism system that we have. Microsoft will never allow Linux to be popular, that's why 99% of computers comes with Windows, the money rules the world.
runlevel0
in reply to JaggedRobotPubes • • •Linux is NOT a desktop OS.
Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, Fedora are desktop OSses
KDE is a desktop
Linux is a kernel. Linux is Android, Linux is your NAS, the supercomputer where I work at and the servers that make the internet.
Discussing Linux in terms of a desktop OS is moot.
Windows includes FOSS, 99% of "all the small apps" are available in Linux, Mac or Windows.
All the ones that not: Photoshop or MS Office are available on the cloud and way more powerful than their desktop veresions.
You CAN have KDE / Kwin running on Windows.
The Linux community does enough. "We" basically own the internet. If any of us wants a Linux based desktop we install it and use it.
The rest can use Android.
ⲇⲅⲇ
Unknown parent • • •I think that is what you need to do to learn anything on computers... It's a skill, yeah, you need to improve it and not get scared, I remember those feelings a time ago, and now I realize everything fixes if I just read the docs/issues. No need to ask, so I wish the best for you and remember always to read the docs before posting/asking.
Depends, if a noob tries to do something complex they won't be able, let's use common sense also here. Don't try to do your own distro, but you can learn how Kdenlive works to edit a video or use
--helpon a command if you are not sure what it does or can do.
... show moreIf you don't understand the technical details of the documentation, or you search for what are those technical details (that can solve your issues) or you are on the wrong documentation.
I think that is what you need to do to learn anything on computers... It's a skill, yeah, you need to improve it and not get scared, I remember those feelings a time ago, and now I realize everything fixes if I just read the docs/issues. No need to ask, so I wish the best for you and remember always to read the docs before posting/asking.
Depends, if a noob tries to do something complex they won't be able, let's use common sense also here. Don't try to do your own distro, but you can learn how Kdenlive works to edit a video or use
--helpon a command if you are not sure what it does or can do.If you don't understand the technical details of the documentation, or you search for what are those technical details (that can solve your issues) or you are on the wrong documentation.
For a common user, if they want to play a game they just need to install Steam and enable the option to play Windows games on Linux, that would be the same as doing it on Windows, if the user doesn't know how to do it, they search and some user or doc explains to go to the settings and enable it, or install steam via commands or using GUI.
If the application Kdenlive stopped to work without any error message, then you can go to the source git page and look for issues related, and you would appreciate a lot to find all the open source programs and dependencies with their own git pages to find recent issues reported (on Windows is harder as most stuff is hidden and closed).
But if Microsoft Office stop to work without any error message, then yeah, developers needs to send you random steps to hope it fixes your issues, and probably they won't ask you the logs, not much doc to read for this case. I think they have some basic help steps like re-install, clean cache and reboot your device, that doesn't really help when something is crashing hard.
If the documentation you're reading is too technic then you need to improve your tech skills, there is nothing wrong learning how a desktop interface works (as example), in the future you will be able to adapt it to your needs, and it won't force you to accept a change like with WinXP/Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11 interfaces.
Maybe 3 of 10 people that asked me that actually did anything, other people are just lazy that thinks the work of a programmer is easy, as a programmer we need to read many documentation for everything new or change or update on our development stuff. We not only read but also write documentation, to then, some random guy to ask something you have been writing on your own blog and documentation. Understand then if they just respond you telling to read the docs.
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autriyo
Unknown parent • • •This 100% I'm the computer person in my social circles, and my head sometimes starts to hurt from reading less than ideal documentation.
Granted those are usually for pretty involved stuff, but it's pretty frustrating spending hours to chew through and not getting an answer after all.
I'd imagine it's worse for people whose PC is not a hobby but a tool. You shouldn't need to spend a lot of time and effort on a tool just to get it working right. That might be fine for a used bargain tool, but you don't replace like half the world's OS's with a used bargain tool. That's not what people want or need.
DesertDwellingWeirdo
in reply to KDE Eco • • •So many cheap laptops are about to hit the market, and I'm ready for it.
My gaming desktop is the last barrier to a full transition, but I've been buying exclusively games with a Linux release for over a year now. Buckshot Roulette, Deep Rock Galactic, Hearts of Iron, Lethal Company, Project Zomboid... There's quite a few big ones.
Mio
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Linux is ready for the webbrowser. Office? No, MS Office does not run and still the marketshare for MS Office is very high on Windows. It does not run on Linux.
If the alternatives were better then people would use them.
Gaming? Maybe for Steam OS but that is only one distro. If you choose something else you will not have such smooth experience. The user might be better off by moving to console.
Any business tool like Adobe or custom built Windows tools does not work. This is very hard to change. Hence many can't even move to mac os due to this.
Media Player/View Pictures? Yes, Linux is ready here.
Can you choose to have Linux pre installed on a new laptop? No, not normally.
There is still some work to do. I hope we get there. We are close for home users.
Personally I use Fedora with Firefox.
Kilgore Trout
in reply to Mio • • •No. You are underestimating the power of a monopoly.
And Microsoft software comes pre-installed on every shelf computer.
Mio
in reply to Kilgore Trout • • •I think the problem here is that they know they will get full compatibility with others if they buy MS Office. MS Office does not even follow their own protocol standard.
Some know that the webbased version is free.
That makes it really hard to compete. I hope EU fix this.
ⲇⲅⲇ
Unknown parent • • •I don't get now where you want to go now. If you want to know about computers then read, if not... just keep using things that marketing sells you. If you want to ask without reading, then better pay for a professional (or ask for someone close to you that knows computers). Like all Windows users do when they have issues. And this would apply online, if you don't pay them, why they need to read for you? Pay for the time professionals spend for you if you can't read. Normally people don't read complex documentation, they just need how to install some app or how to configure something from their desktop or printer drivers, pay or read how to do it, doesn't matter if you are using Windows or Linux, because Windows also crashes and have issues also, Linux is ready for users.
... show moreAnything new is hard, if they are used to Windows as most people, everyone would think Windows is easier than Linux, but it's just because they are used to the other OS. Get used to Linux. Use it, read how it works. Start small. Don't read complex documenta
I don't get now where you want to go now. If you want to know about computers then read, if not... just keep using things that marketing sells you. If you want to ask without reading, then better pay for a professional (or ask for someone close to you that knows computers). Like all Windows users do when they have issues. And this would apply online, if you don't pay them, why they need to read for you? Pay for the time professionals spend for you if you can't read. Normally people don't read complex documentation, they just need how to install some app or how to configure something from their desktop or printer drivers, pay or read how to do it, doesn't matter if you are using Windows or Linux, because Windows also crashes and have issues also, Linux is ready for users.
Anything new is hard, if they are used to Windows as most people, everyone would think Windows is easier than Linux, but it's just because they are used to the other OS. Get used to Linux. Use it, read how it works. Start small. Don't read complex documentation or even try to compile the kernel on your first day.
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SynopsisTantilize
in reply to KDE Eco • • •I just want a Windows base kernal that I can build my own OS off of. My own DE, my own programs, I want DX12 and NT. I want File Explorer and driver support for days.
But I also want freedom to not have a giant open hole where my data just dumps into a Microsoft cloud environment.
dragonlobster
in reply to KDE Eco • • •I think the single biggest issue I have with Linux is package management. Maybe this is purely distribution dependent, but for example in Ubuntu most of the packages are way outdated, not even on the latest stable version. Then I either have to:
None of those options are appealing. And along with these multiple options I end up having multiple versions of things installed in different locations in different ways and also my PATH ends up a big mess, I think I'm just doing something very wrong.
Kilgore Trout
in reply to dragonlobster • • •Flatpaks environment now is the closest to the Windows experience.
Open the app store (GNOME Software / KDE Discover), search, click install, click run.
unyons
in reply to dragonlobster • • •Flatpak for the Win!
Get it? For the WIN?
Amon
in reply to unyons • • •snapped out of existence.oo1
in reply to unyons • • •ⲇⲅⲇ
Unknown parent • • •Sorry, I will use "a person" when trying to make examples not related with you.
I'm super obsessed with Linux, I always tell people to use Linux, I try even the older people to get into Linux, I tell friends to install it and I try to help them. I'm really obsessed with Linux system, I really love it, and it hurts me when people just gets scared when I mention Linux (because that happened to me, some people don't want to hear the "Linux" word).
... show moreI think that's what I was talking about Microsoft never going to allow to Linux be popular, they just want it to be a solution for programmers, they don't want people to see Linux for a daily OS. The marketing and mass media is the main issue, if more users uses Linux, more companies will focus their apps for Linux. Until then, we need to read git source pages to see if they made the app for us (anyway, Wine sho
Sorry, I will use "a person" when trying to make examples not related with you.
I'm super obsessed with Linux, I always tell people to use Linux, I try even the older people to get into Linux, I tell friends to install it and I try to help them. I'm really obsessed with Linux system, I really love it, and it hurts me when people just gets scared when I mention Linux (because that happened to me, some people don't want to hear the "Linux" word).
I think that's what I was talking about Microsoft never going to allow to Linux be popular, they just want it to be a solution for programmers, they don't want people to see Linux for a daily OS. The marketing and mass media is the main issue, if more users uses Linux, more companies will focus their apps for Linux. Until then, we need to read git source pages to see if they made the app for us (anyway, Wine should be able to run it if the app doesn't have many requirements).
It is possible to buy computers with Linux OS already installed, so you can just open the browser and search what you want to know what to do on Linux, for example video editing, you can use Kdenlive and many YouTube tutorials for Linux and you would do it also if you had Windows OS, unless you paid for a teacher, but when someone never touched a Windows, normally they need to seek for tutorials or guides, Windows and Linux has, but Windows is limited and Linux allows you to do much more.
The "F" in FOSS stands for "Free" and refers to free as in freedom, not just "free as in no cost." You can commercialize your FOSS projects without problem, the whole point of FOSS is the freedom.
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Volker Krause
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Stage YELL – 38C3: Illegal Instructions Streaming
streaming.media.ccc.deKDE Eco
in reply to Volker Krause • • •Video recording will be available here:
media.ccc.de/v/38c3-opt-green-…
Opt Green: Coordinating a Windows 10-to-Linux upcycling campaign across Free Software communities worldwide
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Unknown parent • • •But there are hard and easy guides, just go to the easy guides. The times someone said to me to read the docs, they were right. Often when I want to start a post asking for help or reporting an issue I realize that issue has been reported already or documented before I finish writing it, because I do my searches while I write my issue adding context of it.
If your skills aren't good for that guide, start with something simple, I don't know what kind of issue happens that what you are explaining.
... show moreI do help anyone, no matter if they use Android, Linux, Windows, Apple... The best way to help them for me is to sit behind them and tell them what steps to take, often they ask me what to do, and then I tell them to read what is on the screen, the app window or the popup, and her
But there are hard and easy guides, just go to the easy guides. The times someone said to me to read the docs, they were right. Often when I want to start a post asking for help or reporting an issue I realize that issue has been reported already or documented before I finish writing it, because I do my searches while I write my issue adding context of it.
If your skills aren't good for that guide, start with something simple, I don't know what kind of issue happens that what you are explaining.
I do help anyone, no matter if they use Android, Linux, Windows, Apple... The best way to help them for me is to sit behind them and tell them what steps to take, often they ask me what to do, and then I tell them to read what is on the screen, the app window or the popup, and here I say, "just read, what does it say?" and the text they read is often the response to what they want to do.
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runlevel0
in reply to KDE Eco • • •Regarding corporate support:
In my current and late companies, we had the choice between a Mac Powerbook (latest model) or a Dell Latitude, also from the latest and more powerful model. With two or three OS flavours: latest Windows, latest Mac OS X or a Linux distro of your choice.
Mac and Windows are managed by the IT department. Linux is managed by us at "own risk" basis (we do have to follow a few security directives though).
If a user has a problem with her Mac or Win10 they get help from the IT department.
If this is a member of the finance department, it is OK for her to lose an hour or two for an IT person to repair it or troubleshoot remotely. If it happens to me, I can resolve almost any issue related to Mac, Windows or Linux in minutes. Thus, waiting for a few hours because I can't tweak a setting myself is a waste of time and lowers my productivity.
That's a fact that not many people think about. Not even people who, like me, are IT professionals and work with Windows or Mac OS X machines linked to large Linux systems.
I also
... show moreRegarding corporate support:
In my current and late companies, we had the choice between a Mac Powerbook (latest model) or a Dell Latitude, also from the latest and more powerful model. With two or three OS flavours: latest Windows, latest Mac OS X or a Linux distro of your choice.
Mac and Windows are managed by the IT department. Linux is managed by us at "own risk" basis (we do have to follow a few security directives though).
If a user has a problem with her Mac or Win10 they get help from the IT department.
If this is a member of the finance department, it is OK for her to lose an hour or two for an IT person to repair it or troubleshoot remotely. If it happens to me, I can resolve almost any issue related to Mac, Windows or Linux in minutes. Thus, waiting for a few hours because I can't tweak a setting myself is a waste of time and lowers my productivity.
That's a fact that not many people think about. Not even people who, like me, are IT professionals and work with Windows or Mac OS X machines linked to large Linux systems.
I also do not understand people who complain about "Linux" (meaning a desktop distro) is "difficult", get a Mac and don't complain, even though it is just alien from the Windows point of view, has less of the "little programs" someone was mentioning in this thread, and has a pretty bad support for anything that's not super-trivial.
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Unknown parent • • •As I said, because Linux is not popular, it's hard to know someone close to you that knows Linux to help you.
Now, with your example that you give here, let's say you want to learn how to use the Windows PowerShell things. If you don't have someone close, you would look for a professional to pay, if you don't want to pay, you would check for a YouTube guide and there are full of guides about it.
If you want to do the same with the Linux terminal, is the same exact phrase: "let's say you want to learn how to use the Linux terminal things. If you don't have someone close, you would look for a professional to pay, if you don't want to pay, you would check for a YouTube guide and there are full of guides about it."
Most of the people wants to play on their PC and don't want to mess with Linux, the people I know that doesn't play on their PC are still using the Linux I installed to them. And your example
... show moreAs I said, because Linux is not popular, it's hard to know someone close to you that knows Linux to help you.
Now, with your example that you give here, let's say you want to learn how to use the Windows PowerShell things. If you don't have someone close, you would look for a professional to pay, if you don't want to pay, you would check for a YouTube guide and there are full of guides about it.
If you want to do the same with the Linux terminal, is the same exact phrase: "let's say you want to learn how to use the Linux terminal things. If you don't have someone close, you would look for a professional to pay, if you don't want to pay, you would check for a YouTube guide and there are full of guides about it."
Most of the people wants to play on their PC and don't want to mess with Linux, the people I know that doesn't play on their PC are still using the Linux I installed to them. And your example is something easy, and there are many guides on YouTube and blogs about it.
If someone responds with a "rtfm", should be because the question is about something complex not a common user do, what common people do on their computer it's all on YouTube guides.
I think those people that kept with Linux are those that doesn't play games or doesn't reject the idea from the beginning (denying learning something new).
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Unknown parent • • •
... show moreWrong, Linux need marketing. If we weren't doing it right then Linux wouldn't be the most important distro on all world, even your router, car, smartphone antennas and most of the things u see when walking on street uses Linux. If you are saying the problem are those that doesn't know how to search or use a computer, the problem is there, those people not learning correctly, as what you been saying "they don’t search for “beginner’s guide to (tool)”, let a lone a professional to teach them, they search for “vague terms describing what I want to do in non-technical terms”.", this particular phrase can be applied objectively to the people and not the system, as it would happen on Windows if they were using it, right? (that's why Windows users has more virus, it's easier to write a blog to run a .exe to solve your problem and newbies will do it and get infected) So who needs to do it better? I don't think the Linux community should do it better or anyone should tell them to
Wrong, Linux need marketing. If we weren't doing it right then Linux wouldn't be the most important distro on all world, even your router, car, smartphone antennas and most of the things u see when walking on street uses Linux. If you are saying the problem are those that doesn't know how to search or use a computer, the problem is there, those people not learning correctly, as what you been saying "they don’t search for “beginner’s guide to (tool)”, let a lone a professional to teach them, they search for “vague terms describing what I want to do in non-technical terms”.", this particular phrase can be applied objectively to the people and not the system, as it would happen on Windows if they were using it, right? (that's why Windows users has more virus, it's easier to write a blog to run a .exe to solve your problem and newbies will do it and get infected) So who needs to do it better? I don't think the Linux community should do it better or anyone should tell them to do it better, if you think Linux community needs something, do it or help to do it, but don't tell them "you should do it better" while is a system based on trust and contributions, and the biggest and most important system in this world.
There are many distros trying to make it easy for people, improving the "User experience". I love KDE and as a user experience, I feel it's the smartest and decent desktop environment that actually exists, Windows misses the features and speed of KDE (I can even access to my smartphone storage with Dolphin + KDE Connect), while with MacOS... MacOS lacks much more, you can't even grid windows on corners, WTF..., and that's a nice user experience? People got marketing and started to use it to learn how it works, MacOS is an awful system, GNOME is x100 times better.
Sorry for the late reply.